Ok, so I have finally decided I’m going to run a guest post every Friday until people get bored and stop sending me any.
It’s a great way to bring in some fresh ideas and if you’d like a crack at it, let me know. At the moment about 20 people have told me they want to do it, but only 2 people have actually sent me anything!
I’d love to hear your feedback on today’s post and whether or not you agree with the opinions put forth.
It was written by Nathalie Lussier, who apparently, as the Billionaire Woman, likes nothing better than to prod and poke your pre-existing beliefs about wealth and personal development. I’m not sure about you, but I’m always up for a bit of poking and prodding. If you’re so inclined you can also follow her on Twitter in fact you can follow us both because I can be found here.
The title below was the original given by Nathalie. I changed it purely for re-posting and SEO purposes.
How Much Money You Make Reflects Your Contribution
How much money do you make every year? Do you consider yourself to be a big earner, or are you one of the average folk? Do you look down on people who earn a lot of money, because it seems that they’re doing it through corrupt means?
Unless you’re part of the group of people who earn a lot of money, what I’m about to discuss may make you change your mind. I believe that your contribution to society is measured by how much money you make. As in, the more you earn, the more you contribute.
Your Contribution to Society Is Measured By How Much Money You Make
You’ve probably heard the sentence: “You can’t help the poor by being one of them.” Well, I propose that we take that sentence to an even greater extreme.
Think about it this way: If you aren’t making enough money, then you are a drain on society. Either you are depending on a social welfare system, which is paid by taxpayer dollars. Or worse, you are on the street begging, and hoping that people who earn their money will decide to give some to you for nothing in return.
On the other hand, there are people like Oprah Winfrey and Bill Gates. They make a lot of money, and they also give a lot of money.
Looking back at John D. Rockefeller, the richest man in history (if you take into account inflation and so on), we know that he was a man who gave a lot. He tithed 10% of his income to his church from the very first paycheck he got.
Part of his giving ritual was to give dimes and nickels to children and adults. He also donated large sums of money to build education and health facilities, which ended up influencing the way our societies and medical systems are set up today.
If You’re Not Making a Lot of Money, You Aren’t Contributing
Back in the day before we had money, it was all about barter and trade. You knew how much you could ask of your neighbors and friends, because you had in mind how many favors you had done for others.
In the modern day and age, the number of favors you’ve done for other people is measured by the amount of money that you make on a monthly basis or the balance in your bank account.
If You’re Struggling Financially, Consider Giving More Favors Out.
One of the things I learned while I was traveling in China for four months, is that the Chinese still have a strong favor system. Maybe it’s because of the communist system, and the lack of free flowing money in general. What I noticed is that not a lot of money exchanges hands. But if your car is broken down or you need someone for whatever reason, your friends are always there for you.
It’s a system that works for them. If you’re not able to make more money, but you still need to buy food and pay rent, consider exchanging favors with your friends and family. Not necessarily for money, but just knowing that it will come back to you one way or another.
Maybe you need some laundry detergent, and you have a friend who hasn’t done their laundry in over two weeks. Perhaps you could do their laundry for them along with your own, saving him time and giving you the opportunity to do your laundry.
The Amount of Money You Make Influences How Much You Can Give
The way society is set up right now, there’s a correlation between the amount of money you make the contribution you make to society.
Some people have said that they think teachers should be better rewarded. Similarly, they argued that professional sports players get paid too much for what they do. I believe that all of these things are a reflection of our values as a society.
Clearly the people with the power to make these decisions (that’s us!), believe that sports players give more to society than teachers do. Now since we’re all part of this society, we can each do something to change the status quo.
Nothing changes overnight, but if we express our discontent with the way the system is currently set up, and we reward people who make the changes that we want, it will happen.
If you’re in one of those professions that make less money than they should, change it. If it’s something you love doing, start charging more. If you went into it for the wrong reasons, get out of it and start doing what you really love.
Money Is How You Really Vote
The more money you make, the more money you have to work with, you have more buying power.
You know how we always hear that you should vote with your money? What if you just don’t have a lot of money, does your vote get annulled? If you can’t afford to buy stuff that you believe in, like a vegan pair of shoes or organic apples, then you really have no voting power.
Until you reach a certain income level, you are always struggling to make ends meet. When you’re struggling, you aren’t thinking about other people, you’re just thinking about meeting your own needs. If you start making more money, then you can start thinking about where to direct some of this money.
Money flows. It’s never in one place for too long. So it’s just a matter of having the power to direct it to flow toward causes that reflect your values.
Donating is good for the soul and double good because it lets you decide where the money goes. Depending on your values, you might donate to a wildlife organization, reverse deforestation, or build homes in your neighborhood. Similarly, starving children around the globe are calling your name, so you can donate to relieve hunger.
Bear In Mind
Hopefully this article has helped you to see that “big shots”, “fat cats”, and all of those people at the top that make tons of money should not be looked down upon. In fact, you should try to make more money yourself.
It’s only when you make more money that you can help others. You can make more money by doing more favors for people. Sometimes favors translate into money, but sometimes they just free your money to go to more important things like your voting power.
Nathalie Lussier is a raw vegan who happens to be on a mission to change the world, blogging about money and raw foods. You can Subscribe to her RSS here for more personal development articles from the Billionaire Woman.
I cannot agree with the points made in this post.
First, saying that “Your Contribution to Society Is Measured By How Much Money You Make” grossly overlooks the enormous value of work that directly contributes to society, such as work done by those in NGOs, social movements, charities, etc — work done by people whose income is often on the lower end. Work that is either ‘on the ground’ or rewriting policy to allow for genuine change. It is simply unfair and inaccurate to say that “it’s only when you make more money that you can help others.”
The fact that NGOs are largely dependent on corporate funding is a dangerous flaw, which was highlighted during the whole Madoff scandal when many NGOs suffered budget losses. It has been shown in many places and times that throwing money at a problem very often fails to solve it. It is pretty pathetic that people working in NGOs are often expected to make very little money — but at the same time, turning social movements into corporation-style workplaces also risks separating genuine motivation and “just another way to pay the bills.”
Second, there is a logical flaw in saying that someone earns an “average” income isn’t earning “enough” and is therefore a drain on society. It’s not possible to interchangeably talk about people who are poor and struggling and people who aren’t rich. Many people live happily on a modest income simply because they don’t feel the need to constantly buy things, to own a car, or to constantly “upgrade” their lifestyle. Living in Thailand, I can live very comfortably on a modest income, which also means I have time to do volunteer work for local NGOs.
Last, it’s easy to point to Bill Gates and say that rich people give so much money. But a critical look at the deeper systems also makes it clear that the corporations and the big money-makers are largely responsible for creating the problems that they now hand out so magnanimously.
Oops, I didn’t mean to make the above comment anonymous. That was me.
Zoes last blog post..On Pimples and the Danger of Assumptions
Crikey! I don’t agree either.
I have to agree with Zoe. This household earns an average wage and I’m totally happy with that. I don’t want bigger and better of everything, I’m content with what we have.
Sure one of us could get a job which earns mega bucks and we’d never see each other or our family.
Family far far outweighs how much we earn.
Money is not the answer to all society’s ills.
Taras last blog post..Is one-armed CBeebies presenter scaring your children?
I believe there is always more room in the land of financial success. It is far from an exclusive crowd.
I think more people should make it their mission to get up high on the mountain, then help others get there too.
I read every morning on my blog reader how people make more money without sacrificing their family or soul. They do it by working in the field of passion, focused and smart. I am neither focused, nor smart, yet I seem to be improving my position a little bit at a time by following their example. Money and success are not evil or self serving unless the individual behind them make it that way.
Folks who are successful, and folks who aren’t have one thing in common….they are self-made. Beliefs concrete us in place, or are the sledgehammer that sets us free.
(I dont believe there is a dollar amount on success either. 50k is as good as 500k or 5m if the success is in your passion) The dollar amount premise doesnt sit with me though. If any of you made 30k, but contributed 200 hours to community service, how is that better than 100k and nothing other than tax reciepts?
I donate a bunch of money every year to Ronald McDonald House, American Cancer Society, and charities for those who cannot help themselves (ie, US Government). I further intend to donate my time and expertise to training those who cannot afford it, so that possibly they too can rise and help others.
While I agree that money has no soul, I further agree that if you can master it, you can do more good with it than not.
There will always be a need for good people’s time. While their efforts are always noble and remarkable, someone still has to write checks. It is no less noble to donate and make the lives of others better. Less personal, but still noble.
Retract one statement above. The 30k with community service is MUCH BETTER than 100k and tax reciepts. I hadnt finished my coffee yet. Put the torches down. I offended myself too.
I’ve nothing against becoming rich or maximizing your income potential. I don’t think it’s wrong or greedy and I don’t think anyone that is rich is automatically suspect.
I’ve a huge problem with telling people that the only way to make sure their contribution matters and their voice is heard is to become financially well off. My kids go to school with many children who have it drilled into them that because they are poor, because they are black/Hispanic/rednecks/other that they don’t matter as much, that they are powerless.
Do you think that motivates most of them? Or do you think it makes a good portion of them give up?
How many stay at home mothers are cowed into staying in bad relationships because after all they’ve contributed nothing and their unpaid work is only given lip service by society?
How many of our senior citizens feel like nothing now that they are unable to work and feel like they are invisible and have no purpose?
The message we need people to get is that they are powerful NOW. That they matter NOW. That they are contributing NOW. Their voice can be heard NOW. They don’t have to wait, they don’t have to be part of some inner circle, they can start now.
We all have something to contribute. Looking at people as “drains to society” is a very good way to dehumanize them. After a while you don’t feel so bad about all the inequality in the world, because after all you’re a giver, you’re a contributor, all the drains should be happy with whatever crumbs they can find.
Tracys last blog post..I am in need of an authority and a niche
@Zoe: I think that we need to money to change these systems. In today’s world, people still have to pay their bills, and they aren’t going to work to change the system for free. Of course there are exceptions to this.
But a lot of the great examples of people “making the changes” and actually doing the stuff that needs to get done, are from people who were making the big bucks & decided they were sick of not changing the world. Sometimes they quit their jobs & do the volunteer thing, and that’s great. Other times they use their existing careers as a means to fund their help (or transform their experience into a new type of career).
@Tara: I really commend you for choosing your lifestyle. I think it’s great, and I agree that family comes first. I don’t suggest that you get a mega bucks job though. I would probably recommend you find a way to bring in a second income. I don’t believe in extreme consumerism and I rarely shop, but looking at someone like “Millionaire Mommy Next Door” we can see that living a simple life doesn’t mean we can’t have money. Also like @Michael says, you could volunteer your time instead. :)
@Michael: I think you managed to sum up my point about “money & success are not evil” expertly. It’s absolutely better to be able to volunteer your time toward something you believe in, and I plan on doing that in the next 5 years.
I agree with you that success is in what we make of it, and really as long as you’re doing it with a good attitude you’ve got it. Congrats on your contributions (even to the charities who can’t help themselves) I think you’re doing awesome!
Nathalie Lussiers last blog post..Long Overdue Link Love
I have to disagree with this as well. Tracy and Zoe touched upon one of the points that I was thinking about. What about the amount of unpaid labor done primarily by women – raising children and taking care of elderly parents. Since there is no money involved, is this activity then a drain? It seems to be of very high value even though there is no exchange of money involved. But then I suppose these people should stand up and demand that they are paid for their valuable contributions … but how exactly do you propose they do that when they are invisible in society. According to this article, it is more “worthwhile” for them to stop taking care of family members, go our and earn a lot of money and then pay someone else to do it.
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@Tracy: Your message was very powerful! I think you’ve really put your finger on what’s wrong with the way society is set up currently. Of course we’re all worthwhile human beings, we all have something that makes us special.
But the way that society is set up, money is the determining factor to your “worth”. I know it sucks if you look at it from the way you described it. But none of these people have anything stopping them from making more money.
It’s really sad how the minorities you talked about have it ingrained in them that they are inferior. Unlike race or gender, money doesn’t discriminate. You can make more money no matter who you are, how old you are, etc. It just takes a new way of looking at things and putting a bit of action behind your goals.
I don’t think that we should ever feel good about the inequalities in the world. This exact concept should be the one to help us help each other get out of these ruts. See, it’s still all about the way we exchange favors (behind the money) so we can definitely give & receive more of those.
Nathalie Lussiers last blog post..Long Overdue Link Love
@Kim: Thanks for bringing up the point of motherhood. My mother went to work & I was raised in part by an aunt (family friend). Although I don’t plan to do this with my own kids, I think there was a good to point to it. I got to learn from a different perspective than what my mother would have shared. I also learned that I was supported & loved by more than just my parents. Anyways, that’s not necessarily something that I recommend, it’s a personal choice.
You’re absolutely right though, women aren’t compensated for what they do at home. That has always been a problem in our society. I think we should try to come up with a solution together.
I love it when I see women start a business or find work after their children have grown up. It’s very empowering, in my opinion.
Nathalie Lussiers last blog post..Long Overdue Link Love
@ Natalie – “In today’s world, people still have to pay their bills, and they aren’t going to work to change the system for free.”
The most significant and *sustainable* changes occur when the “victims” themselves are pushed to action, or when people are so invested in a cause that they are willing to work for shitty or no pay. Many of my friends working at NGOs have an extremely modest income, but they are fully invested in their work. Of course you are right to point out that money can be a game-changer for a cause or an organization, but I think the flaw in this argument is in equating *personal* wealth to contribution. Yes, money needs to circulate around all of us, but being personally wealthy does not ensure useful contribution — and vice versa.
Giving people the tools to empower them does not equal giving them money. Aid money is notoriously ill-managed in receiving countries/areas, and large sums sadly lead to corruption and more disparity in many cases.
The article below alludes to the two faces of “rich philanthropy” and why it’s not a model to rely upon.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/feb/21/banking-credit-crunch-allen-stanford-marina-hyde-tax
Zoes last blog post..On Pimples and the Danger of Assumptions
Wow, interesting and powerful post. Certainly makes me think twice about how I look at “fatcats”.
Mostly I disagree though. Time is just as important as money when it comes to charity – I’d rather earn less and have more time to help out, than throw my dollars at other people doing the hands-on part so they can solve the problem. I like the hands on approach.
Not everyone can be rich, theres always gotta be people at the bottom, but we’re all as important as each other I guess.
Well firstly thanks to Nathalie for an interesting post and also thanks to everybody for replying and keeping things will thought out and civil. Not that I would ever expect anything different!
I have to say I don’t agree with Nathalie’s main premise, but I think I’m coming from a slightly different angle.
As somebody that fills his spare time with pro bono work and who earns a fraction of what I used to earn in sales, I feel somewhat qualified to offer an opinion ;-)
I don’t believe the over-paying of certain people has anything to do with societies values (other than financial ones). I think it is a classic example of society not living in accordance with its own values and that is something completely different.
To say otherwise would mean that the vast majority of people believe attorneys are more valuable than nurses, that actors more important than teachers, and golfers more necessary than charity workers. Some do think that, but the majority don’t and that’s where the issue gets muddy and complex.
The whole Bill Gates argument is spurious too imho. Microsoft have buried many competitors and for years they operated a de facto cartel with suppliers. Lots of very wealthy companies use their position to strangle smaller companies and have no regard for the people that work for them.
Gates had a reputation in his younger days for being a tight arse as we say in the UK. What he’s doing now is great, but a broke guy giving $10 would impress me equally.
Even the MS policy to give product to education as a fraction of the normal retail cost has a $ value. Get kids used to it and they stay using it. I could go on about launching products that they know don’t work properly, but I think you get my message.
There have been numerous very wealthy benefactors in history and there have been some very greedy ones too. Take a look at Wall Street and the examples of the pursuit of wealth hurting everybody. Take a look at Enron and Arthur Anderson and in the UK, Bearings Bank too.
As I said this is incredibly complex and I don’t think there’s an answer as such.
It’s good to talk about this stuff and air ideas though. That’s why I’m grateful for Nathalie putting her ass on the line with a radical, thought provoking and well-meaning idea.
@Zoe: I think your friends who work for their causes with a lower pay, but are happy to do it, are completely awesome! But even Mother Theresa said “It takes a checkbook to change the world.”
@Catriona: That’s great that you’re into the hands on approach. But how hands on can you really get in a day-to-day situation? It’s not everyone who can travel across the world to lend a hand, and then again, it comes back to both money and time.
@Tim: Ahh the lovely Tim! Society is really not living in accordance to its own values. We all think that a doctor is more important than a Hockey player (I’m from Canada, and that may even be pushing it).
Yet, we live in an “entertainment society”, which means that movie stars get our money, and so do other entertainers. We like being entertained, it keeps us from looking too closely at ourselves and the world around us.
Although I know Bill Gates has donated tons of money, I’m still an Apple girl at heart, and I don’t necessarily agree with Bill’s business practices. But at least we can see that he is “routing” the money in a good direction. Did he do things he probably isn’t proud of? Probably. But maybe he got softer in his older years and decided to give money away to good causes.
Like you said, it’s not a simple topic. I like the idea of getting people to talk about these things. If we never think about the way money is “routed” in our world, then we can’t change it either. :)
Nathalie Lussiers last blog post..Pendulum Swings Part 2: Birth Control Pills Gone Wrong
I think our current economic crisis gives the lie to this line of thinking. Many of the people who made billions in the housing and commodities bubble simply shuffled money around and created zero real value. These people, many of them knowingly, manipulated the financial system to generate wealth for themselves and robbed others of the opportunity to gain wealth.
Then we have larger than life figures like Mother Teresa, Mohandas Ghandi and Nelson Mandela who show that contributions to society can transcend material wealth. None of these people were wealthy, but their meaning to the world reaches historical proportions.
Finally we have the truly underpaid citizens – teachers, police, firefighters and military personnel. None of the people in these groups is paid according their value. They are tasked with providing for the public safety and a building a future for our society, and are paid a pittance. Do you think they are compensated fairly?
Material wealth only demonstrates value added in a very narrow aspect of life. It does not measure love and encouragement given to children, it does not measure commitment to spouse, it does not measure any of the areas of life that have real value. Nobody goes to their grave wishing that they had created a little more economic value.
@Quint: You are absolutely brilliant! You really cut to the chase, we are not creating the value that want to be, and our monetary system doesn’t account for so many things.
One thing I wanted to mention that seems to have gotten lost in translation: if you’re being paid more, you’re going to give more back.
If you’re in the service industry and you double your rate, you’re going to work twice as hard for your customers to make them feel that they’re getting what they’re paying for.
I’ve noticed it a lot in the office environment, someone who gets paid X amount of dollars is unwilling to put more effort than X is worth. But if they were to ask for a raise, or go to work for a different company that pays them better, they would work their butts off.
But back to your point Quint: We aren’t compensating people for the things that really matter to us. Our families, our children, our safety.
Nathalie Lussiers last blog post..The Beet Goes On: Raw Juice Video
@ Nathalie – I have to disagree with that. I’m in the service industry and I can’t do much more for my clients and readers here than I do without sacrificing my fragile state of mind and work/life balance.
Some posts can take me 5 or 6 hours. Then I have to pay for the graphics and my hosting. I am waaaaay out of pocket on this blog. I get very few clients from it and I have spent in excess of $5k over the last 18 months and nearer $10k if you count all my online expenditure.
Quite frankly, if somebody told me I wasn’t giving enough value, I’d probably want to punch them ;-)
I spent 20 years in sales and I’m all for giving value, but every product has a finite value and it doesn’t matter what I do, very few people can afford to pay me $250 per hour for one on one coaching.
It’s cool in theory, but the practice is different.
One other thing. The example of the person moving and working harder doesn’t stack up. Money has proven again and again to be an awful motivator other than in the short term. They may prefer the job, or the people, or their values may be in more in alignment with the new company, but them working harder will have almost zero to do with the money they are being paid.
@ Quint,
Not to play devils advocate, but every one of our Police Officers, Firefighters, and Soldiers join, no, volunteer for this service knowing full well what the career expectations are. That is why they so deserve our respect.
Volunteerism and Honor go hand in hand. Balance of honor and livability is very delicate. Could you imagine injecting a fat pension, big house, liability, and fortunes lost into the decision making paradigm of a police officer, firefighter, or soldier?
I am not saying that these men, or all men are softened by money, but do you want a firefighter stopping to consider his financial position before he decides to come through the window to get you out? That is what happens when the money is tooo good. You don’t always get the honorable applicant for the job.
We can spend all day long debating greed, but truly, if we held ourselves to a higher standard than that we would expect from others, would we need to point fingers at who makes what?
You gotta give to live…. Sammy Hagar
@Tim: Have you looked into Steve Chandler’s school for life coaches? He basically teaches coaches how to charge more, and give more. I haven’t attended, but I’ve listened to his audio program MindShift and I really like what he has to say. He has influenced much of these ideas.
I think blogging is a tricky thing. If you look at Steve Pavlina, you might see that earns tons of money for his writing. Is is because he does something different? I don’t know, but it works for him. I know not everyone agrees with his views, and I don’t always either, but he is one of the people who is able to take the “giving” and turn it into money easily.
As for the office/money motivation thing, you’re right. I guess I was just looking at it from the “I’m not working harder than I have to” type of perspective that I’ve noticed. But I know people in real life who love their work & getting a pay raise really took their quality & dedication to a new level.
Nathalie Lussiers last blog post..The Beet Goes On: Raw Juice Video
@Michael: I won’t argue the point that some of the honor we give to men and women in uniform comes from a perception that they are selfless and make decisions on priorities other than money.
My argument, though, was that income != value. I believe that the average teacher provides more value to society than an insurance salesman, yet an insurance salesman brings in six figures while most teachers will never see that.
The discussion isn’t about greed or income, but value relative to income. As Nathalie mentioned in her response to me, we don’t compensate people in our society for things we say we value, and we overvalue others for no apparently logical reason.
There might be more comments on the way, but I just wanted to thank Tim & everyone who participated in this discussion!
I’m really honored to have been able to stir up these discussions, and I hope to talk to you all again soon. :)
Nathalie Lussiers last blog post..The Beet Goes On: Raw Juice Video
For me the important point of this article really comes down to getting through one’s head that you aren’t doing the world any favors by staying poor, under valuing yourself, or under valuing your contribution. By staying poor, I mean having your income at a level that leaves you scrapping for cash at the end of each month. That’s a different number for each of us. We don’t need to explain or justify that number to anyone. And we should definitely get over comparing our number to other peoples’ numbers.
In terms of under valuing yourself and/or your contribution, this is where things can get especially tricky. Given our society’s rather messed up value/economic rewards system. But just having the attitude, or perhaps the belief that your contribution is meaningful and should be valued can go a long way. You are less likely to let someone take advantage of you if you believe that what you are doing is worthwhile and should be valued. No, it won’t always equate to monetary gain, but frankly, I really have no stomach for martyrs. Which is to say, if you wish to make a great sacrifice for the sake of your principles, by all means, do so. But do it for your principles and take your reward from having stood by them, not from some desired recognition or reward (that may come, but that shouldn’t be the motivation – this was a sacrifice, remember?).
This is a great post for how it has stirred people to look at and reconsider their beliefs and the ways they frame things. I’m a great fan of Gandhi’s call for us to “be the change you wish to see in the world”. I believe that we all have the power to make the world change. A deep pocket book can greatly magnify this. Then again, it helps for it to be matched by the desire to make those changes. So find the changes you wish to make and start working on them. Even more importantly, value them regardless of how other people respond to them.
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Some people need to have…
@Halcyone: You are awesome. I love what Ghandi said about being the change. It’s true that money will magnify our ability to be the change, but like you said, it starts with a desire to do so.
You’re absolutely right, the number will be different for each of us, and we have no reason to compare. (Other than to torture ourselves, right?)
Anyways, you’ve written everything so eloquently I’m just going to tip my hat to you, and head to bed now. :) Good night & thank you!
Nathalie Lussiers last blog post..The Beet Goes On: Raw Juice Video
What a deeply stupid idea. A mother who raises compassionate and creative children is contributing less to society than the person writing the social gossip column for a newspaper.
It is far less noble to write a check than help someone. Cold charity is insulting.
In guess you haven’t noticed playing with balls and doing dress-ups (highly rewarded) aren’t the most important contribution you can make. Collecting the garbage is far more of a contribution.
The unbelievably short-sighted and ill informed, shallow and thoughtless argument of this post really is disturbing.
Would you want this writer as your parent – “Go ask the nanny dear, I’m busy doing a trade that could make me a million dollars – far more noble than looking after you”?
Guess you were expecting something like this from me Tim.
Evans last blog post..One Hundred Years – and counting
Nathalie, congratulation on having the guts to say what so many are afraid of saying publicly, even though they believe it. It is not to denigrate those who don’t make a lot of money, but the fact of the matter is most of society hates and envies those who do. The rich are the problem. Everybody loves to blame the rich. Well it just so happens that almost every person I know who has made it on their own, is someone I admire. I love the people who go to work from 9 to 5 and then go home and plop their ass on the couch, pop a beer and a cigarette and bitch about how the rich are robbing them. Those future rich are working themselves practically to death to someday provide you with an innovative product or service. Most of them will fail.
The reality is that people get rich because they solve problems – problems based not upon some ideal, but based upon the most democratic voting system ever devised – voting with dollars. None of the people griping about the rich would actually want to live in a world were there were none. They could go back to the stone age I guess if they wanted to try.
I’m not rich, but I thank god I live in a world where people get rich by satisfying the needs and wants of the masses. Yes, let me say it. I thank god that drug companies got rich risking enormous amounts of money on drugs that keep almost all children alive now, when before the majority of them died before they were five.
Good buy to the envious. I hope you never need a life-saving drug that an evil corporation brought to market. After all and I quote someone above “it clear that the corporations and the big money-makers are largely responsible for creating the problems”.
Not so. Nature created the problems. Go to Africa and take a look at the animals – they rip each other apart. So did your ancestors thou envious amongst you. Your babies died.
Thank you Nathalie.
Stephen – Rat Race Traps last blog post..Walk a Straight Line to High Achievement
I believe in the concept of energy exchanges. Money is but one part an exchange. Hence, I would say that “How Much Money You Make Reflects Your Contribution” should really be how much abundance you enjoy in your life reflects your contribution. Where our thoughts focus on, energy flows. If we notice that we are out of balance in our lives, it is an indication that we need to redirect our energy.
I don’t discount the idea that having lots of money can help create a lot of opportunities, however. I have a family and bills to pay, and have the intent of manifesting abundance. I also agree with your statement that with money, we too can choose to use it for the good of others.
Still, I would choose to make my intent, in the overall good for my love ones and myself. I gave up my high-paying banking career to be at home with my kids. In the process, I have gotten in exchange the wealth of time, bonding with them. I wouldn’t also have started my website if I have not left my previous job and gotten to know Tim for instance :-)
In my opinion, money is not to be a goal by itself. It has no value whatsoever. It is how we attach meaning to it. More importantly, is whether we love what we do and how we bring our gifts forward to serve others. In the highest expression of our gifts, abundance (which includes all forms that symbolizes it – such as money, love, peace, happiness, etc) flows.
Namaste
Evelyn Lims last blog post..What Are The Akashic Records?
@ Evan – Well put it this way, I didn’t think you’d be linking to it from your own site.
I do think you could have delivered your opinions in a more respectful manner, but that is your choice. I don’t agree with the post, but it has made me think about it and prompted some great comments.
I want to provide an environment where people can offer more ‘out there’ theories without feeling afraid or intimidated. Not that I’m suggesting Nathalie will be afraid because she’s a black belt at Taekwondo (or some other martial like that) and would probably kick your ass ;-)
I won’t be accepting articles that are racist, misogynistic, homophobic, xenophobic or ridicule minorities. And I don’t want stuff that is abusive or aggressive, other than that, I’ll listen to anything.
@ Nathalie – I groaned when I read the Pavlina comment. You’re right he made lots of money. He used to ask for donations – for himself. He had one of the funniest lines in the blogosphere, since copied my many others. He suggested his readers should enjoy the spirit of giving and send him some of their money.
Er, okkkkk. Well personally although I tend to live month to month, if my readers wanted to enjoy the spirit of giving I’d suggest they look for a charitable course.
Having said that, I understand the cost of running a blog, so if a blogger wants to ask for donations, that’s fair enough. But puurlease don’t give me that spirit of giving crap because I’m going to barf. Especially when he was earning so much money.
He also ran a lot of ads and did a post once where he explained he was making over $1,000 per day. I haven’t an issue with that, until he kindly pointed out to me he only looked at products with high price breaks, typically over $100.
That act of philanthropy should help his less well off readers.
As for the guy making money helping coaches make more money. You’re completely missing the point. Half the people that come to me are on their arse financially speaking. It doesn’t matter how much value I demonstrate, they don’t have the money.
I spent 20 years in sales, I know how to sell my product, I just don’t want to ’sell’ it. I want coaching to be accessible to as many people as possible and if that means I don’t get to be as rich as SP, then I’ll just have to learn to live with that.
@ Quint, agreed, $ does not signify value.
@ Evan, a little disappointing the word stupid was used in reference to someones idea here. Your sense of nobility is obviously different than mine. Letting people rest easy by picking up the tab for their stay in a strange town, while their children undergo Cancer treatments is the direct result of my check writing. I guess there is nothing noble about that. Guess I have offended at least 100 families that came to Orlando to get treatment for their kids. Guess I will keep my money and beg forgiveness.
Hi Tim,
I believe was entirely respectful of this author. I at no time attacked them personally – only the views that they presented. If you would like my uncensored response to these views you would find that I was extraordinarily restrained.
Michael,
I believe some views are stupid – don’t you? What is your idea of noble? I didn’t say that giving money was not noble only that it was less noble than giving of ourselves (time, effort, presence and so on). I think wealthy people should give more of their money. The way the wealthy usually spend money on themselves is quite obscene and a long way from noble. If you believe my views are stupid, that’s OK, tell me why and we can talk about it. But we need to have the discussion, I won’t agree just because you think I should.
Evans last blog post..One Hundred Years – and counting
@Evan: Thanks for sharing your thoughts. We’re all entitled to our opinions. I would just note that I’m not saying we give up our values for money. I think it is possible for mothers to earn an income while being stay-at-home-moms.
Earning money doesn’t mean that you will be less compassionate to your children, or that you would ignore them completely. Kids take naps, and there are ways to do some sort of work while being with your kids. You could start a home daycare, and help other people’s children while taking care of your own.
In any case, I don’t really care if you think the idea is stupid, it’s just my reflection on the way society is set up. If you don’t think society really works this way, then I’d love to live in your society. ;)
@Stephen: Thank you Stephen. In my upbringing there was always a lot of complaining about “rich people”. Of course my family is exactly the type to come home, watch TV, beer & TV dinner in hand. It’s not what I believe in, and that’s probably why my views are extreme and controversial in other people’s eyes. :)
@Evelyn: I really love how you managed to broaden the definition away from money, and toward abundance in general. It’s so true that we should be able to experience abundance for what it means to us: love, joy, time, etc. And like you said, we have bills to pay, that’s just one of those things.
@Tim: I know, Steve Pavlina is not the best example. I mean, he really took his blog as a business, and spent a lot of his time optimizing and doing some affiliate sales. I don’t necessarily think his model would work if everyone did it. I mean, if we all just started giving value we wouldn’t have any fruits or vegetables growing in the fields or anyone to pick them, etc.
So blogging is not as black & white as we’d like. It’s a lot about advertising, for the most part.
For coaching: I understand your point of view better now. I think it’s very admirable what you’re doing. It’s true that you could focus on a wealthier set of clients and charge more. But since your goal is to make a difference in the lives of people who don’t have much money, then it makes sense not to earn as much.
I definitely admire you all the more for that. Maybe it’s because I’ve never been in sales & I don’t know the ickiness of it. (I did work as a clerk in a store, but that wasn’t really “high pressure” sales.)
In any case, I’m glad we’re having these discussions. :) I’m learning more about your motivations, and it’s nice to get different perspectives.
Nathalie Lussiers last blog post..The Beet Goes On: Raw Juice Video
Dear Nathalie,
Thankyou for your clarification. I was going by what you said in your post. Things like:
In the modern day and age, the number of favors you’ve done for other people is measured by the amount of money that you make on a monthly basis or the balance in your bank account.
and:
The way society is set up right now, there’s a correlation between the amount of money you make the contribution you make to society.
and:
When you’re struggling, you aren’t thinking about other people, you’re just thinking about meeting your own needs.
and:
“big shots”, “fat cats”, and all of those people at the top that make tons of money should not be looked down upon. In fact, you should try to make more money yourself.
and, perhaps most especially:
It’s only when you make more money that you can help others.
You are welcome to disagree with my opinions. Feel free to pick holes in them. I trust with goodwill that we can arrive at agreement and/or mutually beneficial collaboration.
To be as clear as I can: it is our time and energy that are our contribution and money is not a direct reflection of this.
Evans last blog post..One Hundred Years – and counting
@ Evan – Personally I think starting a comment “What a deeply stupid idea” is not particularly respectful and not likely to achieve anything positive or stimulate rational debate.
I appreciate you attacked the idea, but I think it’s possible to do that and be aware of how people may receive that.
There is an NLP presupposition that suggests “The meaning of your communication is the response that you get”
Not totally sure I agree with it 100%, but it’s an interesting idea and one I try to bear in mind. Except on those occasions when I’m trying to wind somebody up of course ;-)
@Evan: Thanks for your clarification. I achieved my objective with the post, which was to share my perception of society and money, and to get people to think about it.
Beyond that, I’m not really interested in convincing you or poking holes in your arguments. I think we have both benefited from listening to each other’s opinions, and now it’s time to move along. :)
@Tim: Thanks for sharing that, I had never heard of this concept before. I’ve seen similar communication examples happen in my personal life, so it’s nice to see it explained like that.
Nathalie Lussiers last blog post..The Beet Goes On: Raw Juice Video
This idea from NLP is wrong.
I mishear others and from what I understand they mishear me (in which cases it is not their problem with communication or mine).
To re-formulate the understanding of communication – so that it’s about communication and not the sender’s or receiver’s responsibility alone is to see the communication as the meeting. Trust this makes sense.
Evans last blog post..One Hundred Years – and counting
Hmm, let me think. Richard Bandler , mathmatical and computer genius and John Grinder, Professor and world leader in linguistics. And let’s throw in intellectuals like the departed Gregory Bateson and Milton Erickson as well as the still active Robert Dilts and Steve Andreas et al.
Or Evan?
It’s a tough call, but maybe you’re right and you have it nailed and they don’t. I have my doubts though.
I wasn’t talking about mishearing and quite frankly your arrogance (as it appears to me) when you talk about stuff being wrong and ideas being stupid just pisses me off and adds nothing to the debate.
Hi Tim,
You are so very gutsy for bringing such a controversial blogger and blog post to your blog. But, of course, that’s why we love you so!
And Nathalie: I agree with you that “people who make a lot of money are not evil.” But in your post it comes across like you are saying “people who DON’T make a lot of money are evil.”
I’m not sure that’s what you meant but that’s how it sounds and is one of the reasons you are getting such heated responses.
And, by the way, women who are mothers don’t need to add another job to their already busy lives by making money during their infrequent down times. What they need to be doing is taking care of themselves every chance they get, cause they are already giving PLENTY to society by raising their children.
That suggestion comes across as very insensitive and unempathetic to moms. Again, I doubt that it is something that you intended to convey.
It seems to me that your main point was to challenge people around knee jerk reactions towards rich people. Which is a valid thing to look at. But, because i felt so triggered and pissed of by some of your other allegations it made it very difficult for me to even hear your main point.
Just sayin’!
chris zydels last blog post..CATASTROPHES R ( NO LONGER) US
The fact of the matter is: Someone who contributes $1,000,000 to a charity is contributing more than someone who just contributes their time. That $1,000,000 may feed many people who are full-time employees, thus giving ALL of their multiple times to the same effect as one person who is volunteering. It’s simple math. The big $ contributor is giving more. Sorry folks if that impacts your feelings. Nathalie may have said some careless things but she made some valid points as well. Someone who makes a lot of money often also employees a lot of people who can then feed their families AND contribute to others. Poor people don’t do this. Those of you who don’t employ people don’t do this. Sorry, but she has points and to simply ignore them is not to grow your mind.
Stephen – Rat Race Traps last blog post..Warning: This Board Game Could Get You Out of the Rat Race
@ Chris – Thank uyou!
@ Stephen – Firstly, it’s not necessarily true to say the person that gives $1m has more value than the person that just gives their time.
My mom worked voluntarily for over 20 years for Marie Curie the cancer charity before she passed away. She raised a lot of money and brought in dozens of volunteers that then in turn raised money. Her value would have exceeded $1m and there are a lot of people like her. They are the bedrock of most charitable institutions. The reason being, few people give $1m even when they can afford it.
I was once privvy to a talk given by the senior guy for TV & Media relations at one of these companies about 10 years ago. He told us that all charitable help was viewed as a dollar value (yes, he even called it a dollar value in the UK) and that was the only reason they did it. He went on to say the ROI for the right kind of partnership was 7x that of normal advertising.
I have worked for 3 multi-billion dollar international blue chip organizations. The way they operate has zero to do with helping people and everything to do with creating profit to keep stockholders off their back. That has generated an appalling fear-based short-term approach by companies and we’re seeing some of the results of that now.
There are some very kind and altruistic wealthy people and there are some that spend more money avoiding paying tax than the average person earns in a year. There are some honest and there are some dishonest. There are some that have got their money helping others, there are some that have got their money by stepping on others.
Although I never worked in the Pharm industry in my 20 year sales career, I worked with plenty of sales people that did. It was for a long time (until IT exploded) the highest paid sector in sales. It was also viewed as the most unethical and corrupt.
There are of course plenty of rich people employing the less well off. Equally there are a lot of cash rich companies that are dumping staff now because they are fearful of their stock price and how Wall Street will react if they don’t, rather than because they have to.
In the depression John Deere refused to foreclose on their loans because they could afford not to. That bred generations of farmers that are fiercely loyal to them. In other words a kind and compassionate act resulted in sound business too>
Do you think that will ever happen again?
The person contributing $1,000,000 will also be funding buildings, staff, or whatever so your mother can volunteer. Otherwise there would have been nothing to volunteer towards. I’m not going to argue this anymore. Let’s just agree to disagree OK?
Stephen – Rat Race Traps last blog post..Warning: This Board Game Could Get You Out of the Rat Race
I think this is a hugely complex issue and the space available in a blog post means the ideas get simplified.
Personally I feel that although yes, a lot of people who have money donate more, but there are a whole bunch of others who pursue money from a purely selfish perspective and fuck over anyone they need to so that they get the money they want (where they can buy the three $10million homes and the yacht and… and… and…).
In just the same way, there are people without money who would give whatever they could to help others and those without money who will knock down anyone else to get an extra dollar.
Alex Fayle | Someday Syndromes last blog post..Get rid of your somedays: personalized help now available
While I don’t like that the one with the most money wins, I agree that he does. If you look at who is running the show on the local, state, or national level it is the guys with the bucks. Look at your local school board for instance (and I agree teachers need to be paid more). If your town is like mine, the school board includes real estate developers. Why are the real estate developers so interested in education? Because if the test scores for the district are great, more folks will want to move there and the real estate developers will make more money.
Some one once told me, “If you don’t understand something, follow the money.” I think that is the truth whether we like it or not.
This argument is becoming a bit like the nut and bolt debating who holds the motor to the machine. If we didn’t need both, they wouldn’t exist.