The Reality of Reality

Posted on 23 June 2008

If you look at the comments from the previous post you’ll probably not be amazed to see I made a very dogmatic statement about reality being purely subjective. Vered from MomGrind obviously didn’t agree with my point of view and wasted no time in stepping up to the plate and telling me so by responding with this:

What is not subjective:

Discrimination. If you are black, or a woman, or gay etc. - you face discrimination and yes, you control how you deal with it but you don’t control those circumstances (your gender and the discrimination that follows).

Illnesses. If you suffer from a serious physical or mental illness, this affects your reality and again you will probably respond that you are still in charge of what you do with what life dealt you but I still maintain that your reality is NOT completely your choice and not entirely subjective.

Firstly, let me thank her for disagreeing because I like to widen the debate whenever possible and whereas I have to confess to being somewhat opinionated, I also like having those opinions challenged. I have a belief the quickest way that I can learn is to constantly challenge the beliefs I hold on to, including that one.

What I’m about to write is just a laypersons opinion. As a life coach I’ve no wish to restrict my clients in any way, so it’s an opinion that I think is helpful and empowering, but it’s still an opinion nevertheless.

Read what I have to say and if you agree with me brilliant, and if you don’t that’s brilliant too. If it’s the latter tell me so in the comments, and also what makes you disagree. Let’s see if we can come to a consensus even if it’s an agreement to disagree.

I agree with Vered that we’re born with certain things that are beyond our control, none of us have the ability to dictate our own gender or race except for maybe Michael Jackson. Or are they beyond our control? Some religions and doctrines believe even those things are within our power if not at a conscious level.

She’s also pre-empted the fact that I’m going to say that it’s how each individual deals with a situation that determines its meaning. Nothing has any meaning until we give it one, therefore if it doesn’t have any meaning other than the one we place on it, how can it have an objective reality because different people have the ability to attach different meanings?

Death is fairly final I think you’ll agree. If you were going to make an argument for a reality you could say “Well Tim nice try and all, but irrespective of what The National Inquirer says the reality is that Elvis is dead” You may well have a point that Elvis the singer is indeed no longer with us, he’s shuffled off this mortal coil, he is no more, expired, bereft of life, an ex-singer, pushing up daisies, but is he actually dead, or just resting?

Your body is in a huge constant state of flux. Every day millions of cells are dying and being replaced by new ones. In about 2 years time you will have a completely new body. Not only that, but you’ll have new beliefs and new ideas too. So what is the reality of you exactly, and what makes it objective? The only possible thing to cling on to that I can think of is consciousness, and few would describe that as anything other than highly subjective. So if even you aren’t even objective, how can you expect things you are observing and interacting to be so?

Let’s take it a stage further. When we die, where does our physical body go and I don’t mean to the undertakers. Our heart may well have stopped beating, but at cellular level things some things are ticking along quite nicely thanks very much. You can’t destroy matter it simply transforms into something else. There is exactly the same mass on the planet as there was 1,000 years ago minus a bit of space junk and even that’s still hanging around in the same universe with no particular place to go. Your body will go on to do other things after you cease needing it. It may not be stuck together in it’s present form, it may not be astute enough to read my blog and it may not be as gorgeous as you, but so what, it’s still here?

There has been a lot of debate recently in the blogosphere about the Law of Attraction. I have mixed feelings partly because I don’t like the word ‘Law;’ being ascribed to anything that is so obviously not a ‘Law’ but a theory and/or a belief. You can read more here, here and here if you’d like to.

My reason for mentioning this is that even though I’m a long way from being devotee of the LOA, I certainly don’t dismiss it out of hand. Look at the changes, breakthroughs and discoveries that have happened over the last 1,000 years. Is there really any reason to believe the next 1,000 wont be equally as stunning and things we now presume to be true will be considered ludicrous by future generations? It would be highly arrogant to think otherwise in my opinion.

I was about to say, that the reality may be there is no reality, but that would be a ridiculous thing to say ;-)

What do you think? Are you still on the side of reality or do you believe as I do that we all have our own different versions of reality and therefore is must by subjective? I’d love to hear your take.

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20 Comments So Far.

Comment by Darren Daz Cox on 23 June 2008:

One thing for sure that all religions, all doctrines and all science agrees upon is that a positive outlook on reality helps.

If you see the glass as half full you will feel more refreshed than someone who is afraid that the water is half gone.

Reality is what you make of it (I always get that Monty Python old lady voice in my head when I write that hehe) so regardless of whether you believe in the Law Of Attraction or have studied quantum physics (which proves that intent affects reality) you are always better off ‘looking on the bright side of life’!
Comment by Dr. Nicole Sundene on 23 June 2008:

Great points by all. Yes, disease can be subjective though to some degree. I watched an interesting documentary on multiple personality disorder, in which there were patients that had MPD that were not diabetic in their other personality states. I have read about similar accounts with MPD.

The mind body spirit connection studied in the field of psychoneuroimmunology purports that how we think absolutely affects our physical functioning. As a physician I could argue away many different disease states boiling down to just stress. Stress is a state of mind. Stress is our version of reality. Our version of reality therefore can easily affect our physical state of disease. I believe that we can create disease just as much as we can potentially “think it away”…
Comment by Naomi Dunford on 23 June 2008:

You have given me the opportunity to leave a well-reasoned and insightful comment, and I’m grateful. I have chosen, however, to squander that opportunity and leave a stupid comment instead.

Stumbled for the parrot reference.
Comment by Vered on 23 June 2008:

Reading this gave me a big headache. :)

I guess I’m just not as spiritual as you are. When we die, our body disintegrates and turns into fertilizer. Not everything is under our influence. There are facts, there are things that are objective.

Enough is under our control that life coaches can and do make an impact, enough is subjective that a person can change her outlook and become happier. But I still maintain that there IS an objective reality.

I love a good debate too. Thank you. And thanks for the link. :)
Comment by Laurie on 24 June 2008:

I have always struggled with the present. I view time like a ball rolling along a long endless string. Behind the ball is the past and in front of the ball is the future. The single point where the ball touches the string as it rolls along the string is the present. What is mind boggling to me is there is so much string behind the ball and an infinite amount in front of the ball. The absolute tiniest speck of string is the string point called present. Compared to the amount of string that is past and the amount that is future, present is really insignificant. How long is present? Is the millisecond before it still the present? Is the millisecond after it still present? How long is present? Is it such a short time that it really isn’t time at all? Yet it is all we experience. So is present not real since it is so insignificant or is real since it is all we know.

I always aggravated the teachers.

The Law of Attraction is good at attracting flakes.

Saw your review on JEMi’s blog. It sounded like you did a great job. Yeah for her! (No, I’m not bitter :O))
Comment by Evan on 24 June 2008:

“When on the horns of a dilemma: look for the bull in between.”

The particular species of bull I have in mind here is the subjective vs objective variety.

It is I who perceive objectivity. So is objectivity subjective? How would I know that something is objective without me (the subject) knowing it.

I think it is a question that can’t be answered in the terms put.

There seem to be some things that are quite hard and impervious to our thoughts (”I refute it thus” said Sam Johnson kicking his stone). We may believe that falling 20 storeys onto concrete will earn us a Ph.D and transform us into a newt but this seems quite unlikely. In short it seems to this subject that there is a world ‘out there’.

It also seems that much of my experience is susceptible to my influence. I am response-able. To pretend I am not frustrated by the world which doesn’t go my way (perhaps the tension in my shoulders would be a give away though). To ask friends to help with a situation I can’t deal with alone.

My personal (”subjective”) creativity and responsibility has to do with how I respond to the (”objective”) world out there.
Comment by Darren Daz Cox on 24 June 2008:

The present is really the only reality.

There really isn’t anything “objective” as you only see an abstracted version of reality like watching a HD television show, it looks real but it’s just an abstraction of reality.

The slightest variation in your brain will make things look different from one person to the next and chemicals change how the brain interprets the information coming through your senses.

When you feel positive, open minded, ready for new things, your brain chemistry is different than when you are not. Literally, you are changing how you see the world by your attitude.

Even if you don’t believe in the spiritual people and quantum physicists who conclude that reality itself can be affected by your intent, you have to know that your attitude is important to health and happiness.

Be happy first, then the material things follow, not the other way around!
Comment by Evan on 24 June 2008:

Well, the quantum physicists don’t assert that intent affects reality - only that the way we intervene to realise our intent does.

If there is no ‘real’ beyond percpetion, how could our perceptions be modified?

But our attitude is certainly important.
Comment by Tim Brownson on 24 June 2008:

@ Daz - Got to agree with that mate. Soooo many studies have shown that a positive attitude has many upsides with zero (to my knowledge) downsides.

@ Dr Nicole - You KNOW I’m going to agree with what you have to say. Nicely articulated too about stress being based on our version of reality. Thanks for that.

@ Naomi - It’s an ex-parrot.

@ Vered - YOU have a headache, you should have tried writing it, my head almost exploded!

What if the earth is one single organism and we’re all part of the same thing? I know that’s a tough one to swallow, but there are people that believe that and I’ve never seen anything that can positively, definitively prove it’s wrong.

@ Evan & Daz - You both make some good points although I’m tending to lean towards Daz’s view a tad. Quantum physics certainly has demonstrated that we can change an event simply be viewing it, even if we are not involved in the interaction. This is a startling discovery and one that really does call all bets off on reality imho.
Comment by Isabel Joely Black on 24 June 2008:

It’s worth noting that you *don’t* get a completely new body every two years.

The brain cells you have are the only ones you’ll ever have. They don’t get replaced when they die. While the rest of the body replaces itself at an average rate of once every 7 years (some body parts take longer to ‘replace’ than others) your brain is still literally the same brain. As will be your DNA from which all your new bodies are formed. When a friend remarked that we’re all “completely reborn” all the time at this physical level, I had to point out that each time it happens, it comes from exactly the same blueprint.

This is why it’s also important to look after your brain.
Comment by Tim Brownson on 24 June 2008:

@ Joely - Well I’m going to write and complain to Deepak Chopra on that one! I was way too lazy to check up what he meant when he said something a bit like that in some book which I think was ‘Power, Freedom and Grace’ Or maybe he said 7 years and I forgot because I’ve not looked after my brain properly!

I agree about the DNA blueprint otherwise of course we’d be changing beyond recognition all the time, but let me ask you this? Does the DNA change within itself? In other words does it holds the same information but underneath the surface it is constantly in flux? I have absolutely no idea of the answer and maybe it doesn’t, but I’d be interested to know.

I still think reality is completely subjective though ;-)
Comment by Laurie on 24 June 2008:

I think reality is….but it is the interpretation of it that is subjective. The fire burns the forest. Fact, everyone can see the evidence. Is it good or bad? Depends on if you’re the tree that is now ash or the seed that will not germinate unless a fire has swept through the area.

DNA changes. Genes are mutated all the time. Those mutations are passed on to the next generation. DNA also deteriorates. The telomeres (the end of those rascals) breakdown a bit and cause us to age. Damn those telomeres!

This discussion sounds like one they must have had when coming up with the movie The Matrix. I remember when I was a young-un I wondered if we were all on a table with a computer hooked up to us pumping our images of life into our brains. In this case, would the person on table be reality or the image in the person’s brain?
Comment by Jennifer Mannion on 24 June 2008:

Hey Tim, GREAT post! We are definitely responsible for our own reality. For years my reality I was “I am sick and will stay sick forever”. That is what the drs. said, “tests” proved and what I kept telling myself MANY times daily. When I decided to CHANGE the way I was looking at my life and my illnesses — my illnesses disappeared and my reality now is of a healthy energetic 38 year old woman with LOTS to look forward to. I believe changing the way I thought did change the way my body was recreating cells…. If I had done what the drs. recommended and “managed my pain with pills for the rest of my life” or kept my negative self talk going… I might have wound up in the wheelchair as they predicted as well….I like this reality MUCH better. Also — while you may not get a totally new brain studying someone like Jill Bolte Taylor will also reinforce the power of the mind to heal (even the brain)…. Thank Tim! Stumbled And Dugg! Gratefully, Jenny
Comment by Vered on 24 June 2008:

“I’ve never seen anything that can positively, definitively prove it’s wrong.” Well that doesn’t prove it’s right. And the headache just got worse. :)
Comment by Evan on 24 June 2008:

The claim of total subjectivity is self-contradictory. Those who propose it claim that it is really true. Those who healed by changing thought mean that it really did happen.
Comment by Tim Brownson on 24 June 2008:

@ Laurie - Thanks for the input I almost wanted to question whether the forest has burnt the trees and go mega woo-woo, but it’s late and I haven’t got a clue what I’m talking about ;-)

@ Jennifer - Your example is about as great as they come and I love hearing about stuff like that. Is is LOA? Who knows and quite frankly who cares as long as it works?

@ Vered - True and I’m with on the head pain, I think we’ll keep quiet next time or talk about the relative merits of tank tops versus cardigans.

@ Evan - Now you did it, my head just exploded.

Fascinating debate everybody and thanks for taking part.
Comment by Jennifer on 26 June 2008:

Jenny, that is an absolutely fabulous story. Our thoughts and attitude are sooooo powerful.

Tim, I know I late responding to this post. I actually read it the other day and wanted to take some time to think about it and what I wanted to say…

I read a quote recently from some wise source (I don’t remember who) that goes like this:

“You don’t see the world as it is, but as you are.”

Does that go right along with this or what?!

I think from that quote we can say that things are as they are… ie. My friend is healthy or she died, I am am Asian or Mexican, I am single or married, my grass is 1 foot tall or 2 inches tall, my dog barks loud or he never barks. Things are the way they are. Things happen. But how we view them is all up to us - we see things as they are based on past expereinces, our upbringing, maybe even our genes, etc., All of those things affect how we see EVERYTHING, but the best part of it all, is that we have the power to train ourselves here and now how we see EVERYTHING (ie - our reality of these things.) Our reality (or maybe it would be better to say “our reaction to reality”) is what we make it to be.

Way to make us think, Tim! Thanks.
Comment by Jennifer on 26 June 2008:

Sorry for the above typo. That should read, “I’m late” not “I late.”
Comment by Tim Brownson on 26 June 2008:

“You don’t see the world as it is, but as you are.”

I think that is absolutely in line with what I mean. That’s a great quote and I’ve not heard it before, thanks for posting it.

Don’t worry about the typo, I just left a comment at http://www.illuminatedmind.net, made 3 typos and sounded like a gibbering idiot. It happens ;-)
Comment by Laurie on 26 June 2008:

I saw that Tim. I was wondering what was up with you. Now I know ;o) he he he. JK
Laurie