How Do You Change Somebody Else?

Posted on 19 September 2008

All I can say is WOW! I’ve had over 700 e-mails since complaining last week about the uptake for my ‘Ask The Coach’ section.

Sadly though, of those 700, about 280 were from people telling me they needed to lodge $100 million in my bank account and I could keep half of it. 120 were from kind folk offering me reduced Viagra costs. 250 or so were notifications of people that had tried to download my new free e-book on stress and the download had failed.

40 were from a popular blog after I rather foolish ticked the box to advise me of follow ups to my stunningly witty and at the same time profoundly thought provoking comment (nobody else mentioned it and I can only presume they were laughing too much).

5 were from people asking me if I knew a good life coach. 2 from Netflix telling me my queue is empty. 1 was from Facebook telling me some women I’ve never heard of in San Diego has ‘friended’ me, and I was from my wife telling me to get off the phone.

Worry not though kind sir/madam because as per last week I had one person seeking the benefit of my rather dubious advice. You probably knew that already though, right? I seriously doubt many people write a post telling their readers they’re not writing a post.

The question I got was from Laurie. I feel sure some of you will have seen her comment both here and on other fine blogs and here is her question in full and unedited:

I love my hub but he has a really poor self esteem. He is also really negative. I am trying to get him to stop the negative self talk. How can a person systematically reprogram themselves to stop automatically talking negatively to them self? How should a spouse respond to a hub or wife who insists on putting him/her self down? It really gets old. I told the hub I felt like I was going into the meat market and the butcher was holding up a piece of steak telling me it was old, rotten, tough, and tasteless and then wondered why I might not want to buy it. I have to work hard to not let the things he says about himself become the way I think about him as well. I am better at that now than in the past but I still am not perfect at ignoring his negative self talk and self put downs.

I get literally millions of calls from partners and spouses and occasionally even from parents of people that ‘need’ coaching every day. I’m happy to field those calls, but always point out that I need to do a full consult with the party in question to understand whether there is a buy-in.

I’ve had three clients that I haven’t been able to help since moving to the US. Of those three, two of them never wanted to be coached. Family members had told them that they needed coaching and needless to say they were resistant and difficult to work with.

I am currently writing a guest post for Kitchen Table Medicine on how to quit smoking. The first part of the post is as relevant to your situation as it is to smoking and it ‘s about desire.

Your husband has got to want to change. It doesn’t matter how much you want him to change and it doesn’t really even matter if he thinks he should change, he has to want it. Any advice I can offer will be about as useful as me giving a book on Russian military strategy to Sarah Palin if he has no desire to do the work. And there is very little you can do about that.

You don’t actually say if he wants to change or not and I’m going to presume he either doesn’t or doesn’t think he can. If it is the former there are some things you can do that may or may not help.

Whatever you have been doing isn’t working, so try something different!

Firstly, back off and don’t complain. Don’t ask him to change, don’t sigh every time he says something negative and don’t use the steak metaphor again! In fact, knowing as you do about my de-tox, don’t mention steaks ever again, period.

I know it’s a cliché, but you have to be prepared to lead by example. If he is negative, you be ultra positive. If you try and tell him what to do he will almost certainly resist. I spent about 10 years trying to get my wife to read self-development books and failed miserably. Then all of a sudden she starts forwarding me positive message e-mails one Monday morning.

People like to think whatever they do is their idea and they weren’t bullied, cajoled or beaten into it. Brilliant persuaders use this knowledge to their advantage. Be a brilliant persuader!

When you change the way you are with people, they change the way they are with you (Shameless Wayne Dyer paraphrase).

If he thinks he can’t change but would like to, then you can help him to undermine that belief, because it isn’t true.

Think of ways in which you can prove it is inaccurate or could be mistaken. Look for evidence when your husband has managed to make changes in his life (Important: they do not have to be identical, just look for common threads running through).

If in the unlikely event there are no examples like that, look for cases where other people have made the change (Me for instance! I was a right miserable ******* a few years ago) so you can show it’s possible. There is a whole section in my book Know Yourself – Change Yourself that covers trashing old beliefs and installing new ones. I know you have that, so check it out.

The reprogramming thing is a relatively simple procedure. Having said that, it can be a lengthy process, as he needs to start unlearning behaviors that have taken him years to install. This isn’t a one trip to the Hypnotherapist deal and he’ll be skipping home through a meadow holding a flower and singing “Always Look On The Bright Side Of Life”

Rather than me ramble on about stuff that I have covered off before read the post How To Change Your Attitude.

It’s at best tricky, trying to get somebody else to change, and I’m not even sure we have that right to do so. I know your intentions are honorable, but as I said above, you need your husband’s complete buy-in. Otherwise it wont work and could actually exacerbate the situation.

I know there’s a few coaches read this blog and I welcome your opinions, especially if you have any better advice than mine. Actually, you don’t even need to be a coach, if you have an opinion, COMMENT!

BTW, if you do want me to answer your question, e-mail me at tim@adaringadventure.com

Today I’m starting a bit of link love. I plan to link to a couple of blogs each post. If you have a great post that you think more people should read, or a great idea or product. Let me know and I’ll see what I can do. Hopefully this will garner a few more e-mails than the Ask The Coach section.

Aliventures: Many of you know Ali Hale and I am especially grateful for her help in editing me new FREE book on stress ‘Stress is for Suckers’ She has her own e-book launched this work called Diet Basics (The Office Diet – Healthy Living For Busy People) and offers very sensible and easy to implement advice on

Jenny Mannion has a new group-writing project at her blog Heal Pain Naturally. She is looking for other bloggers to write posts about their Heroes of Healing. Go check it out.

I’m going to do an update on the de-tox on Monday although be warned, I’m planning on having a beer tonight. I’m so naughty.

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25 Comments So Far.

Comment by Melissa on 19 September 2008:

I think you’re going to need to be whipped over the beer.

Are you really getting so few e-mails on the ask the coach thing? We all thought it was a really good idea… I’m wondering if everyone is too afraid to ask their question and have you do a post about it?

Shame on them.
Comment by Victoria on 19 September 2008:

Its not up to anyone to choose how somebody else is. It is up to society to define rules that defend our generally accepted rights and of course in that case the rules must be enforced, but that isn’t what’s being debated here.

Loving someone isn’t about judging them. Helping someone isn’t about “giving advice”. What the reader seems to be expressing to her husband is her own sense of dissatisfaction, with how her husbands self-expression is causing her frustrating and disappointment. Is this helpful?

To change, he has to know its down to him. He won’t do that as along as someone else is taking all the responsibility for governing who he is - being a live-in conscience on his behalf. Be positive. Go out. Make friends. Involve him if it seems it would help. Show him all the ways he does make you happy, all the things he has achieved that prove he can be master of his destiny.

Most importantly, help him in a way that is actually likely to result in his wellbeing improving - not just in a way that satisfies your needs to express your frustrations and feel like you’re doing someone a favour at the same time.

Someone else did a good job of putting it briefly, a long time ago; if you’ve nothing good to say, don’t say anything.
Comment by Dave Fowler on 19 September 2008:

Tim,

Steak eh? Hmmm. That’s food for thought.

What a fantastic question from Laurie. It applies to me, because I sometimes have a tendency to be negative – or at least I used to – so what you say about wanting to change I know to be true from my own experience. Although the first thing I had to do was recognise it. You cover this nicely in your book with the horses arse analogy.

One of my little boys has developed a very negative outlook on the world so I’m going to try the ultra positive thing with him.

Like Melissa, I can’t believe you’re getting so few requests, perhaps that’s because you’re preaching to the converted. I haven’t asked you any questions because I take up enough of your time with my life story in the comments.
Comment by Victoria on 19 September 2008:

Two more things I thought of after hitting submit:

1. There’s an example of the author and his wife struggling to help an academically underperforming son in the early chapters (possibly introduction) of “Seven Habits of Highly Effective People” - worth checking out, there’s some handy paradigm shifts

2. Worth any spouse asking themselves, honestly;
- “what does it mean to me that my partner needs help?”
- “what would it mean if they accept/reject my help?”
- “how will I feel about myself when I have ‘fixed’ them?”

Lots of people need to be needed. Some people have developed a menacing array of tactics to manufacture that need. Don’t be one of them.
Comment by Dave Fowler on 19 September 2008:

@ Victoria – I didn’t see your comment before I posted my own, but I’m not sure that I can accept your last comment about saying nothing at all – not at least in the way it applies to this situation.

Sometimes you have to be told the bad news whether or not it’s nice to hear. Pretending that something isn’t happening, and letting it happen anyway is not going to help, and if Laurie fails to act it could have dire consequences for their relationship.

Loving someone is about what’s best for both parties. If I was being jerk of the century I’d want to hear it from my wife first – not the divorce lawyer.

I could be reading you wrong but I think you’ve been unnecessarily harsh toward Laurie. It’s crap being married to a miserable git. I should know, I’ve been one.
Comment by Ali on 19 September 2008:

Tim, thanks for the link! :-) :-)

Also, thanks for tackling this question — it’s pretty similar to one I wanted to ask (but haven’t, in case the person concerned happens to come across it).

@Victoria I think it’s incredibly hard to love someone and not want the best for them — and that often means wishing they would change their negative behaviours. I see this in my own life (particularly as I’ve become more self-aware and interested in personal development over the past few years): I’ve made changes that have made me happier and more fulfilled, and I want everyone else to be just as happy!

I do recognise, though, that I have a tendancy to be somewhat egotistical, and I try not to assume that everyone should want the same things from life as I do — or that my values are the “right” ones that everyone should adopt.
Comment by Jenny Mannion on 19 September 2008:

Hey

Tim, Thanks for the link love and cheers for that beer! I’m going to have one as well to start the weekend off.

I loved your advice and you are so right that the best way is to lead by example and hope that the other person comes around. Attempting to change someone can be taken personally and have the person go even more in the unwanted direction. Praise does go a long way as well… noticing the times the person didn’t do their usual “poor me — life sucks” routine and instead praising them for taking a different action…. I liked your adaptation of the Dyer quote and whole heartedly agree.

Have a wonderful weekend Tim!

Love, Jenny
Comment by Evelyn Lim on 19 September 2008:

I’d agree that if your spouse does not want to change, there is really nothing you can do to him or her. You can only work on yourself. Focus on your own healing. Hopefully, he or she will start to experience the new You and begin to take a step backwards to consider change.
Comment by Laurie on 20 September 2008:

Tim! I do not look like that awful lady in the orange dress. I don’t think I even have a rolling pin! EE-GADS!I told you that other picture on your blog was me. What’s the matter with you man!

@Melissa- I think you’re right. It does take a bit of nerve to put yourself out there. You are taking a chance that someone might beat you up a bit.

@Dave- I agree with you. I think Victoria is being a little rough on me. I am licking my wounds as we speak. Really, I don’t think people realize their affect on others when they are constantly bulldozing others with their negativity. Truth in love is not a bad thing. It can be a turning point in other’s lives. It has been with me in the past when my friend told me what I needed to hear.

@Victoria- It’s not that I am trying to fix him but more that I want for him to enjoy life for himself. He sabotages himself with his negativity. He doesn’t let himself enjoy the journey.

@Ali- Your values are not what everyone else’s is but I would imagine that most people would value a positive attitude over a negative one any day! :O)

@Evelyn-you are right. The only one you can change is yourself. Actually, I have made a great deal of change in myself in the past couple of years. At first it knocked the hub off his feet as I didn’t do the same o’l dance as the past. We made a lot of progress as had to keep up or get left behind. It just seems that lately he has reverted back to being more negative which is discouraging for me.

@Tim- I think you are right. Leading by example is a good plan. My struggle is when his negative speech in embedded in his everyday conversations with me. It gets tiresome. Like said above, I do want good things for him. I believe his attitude is holding us back as a couple to experience all we could together. It also holds him back personally which is his choice. The poor self-esteem is a product of living with dysfunctional self-centered parents. He could never please or measure up. He is also(and I know this will be a big surprise), he is also a perfectionist. Nevertheless, I love him tons!

Thanks everyone for your input. I welcome any more.
Comment by Tim Brownson on 20 September 2008:

Firstly, let me say there have been some great comments here and thanks to all of you for taking part.

@ Melissa - I agree I need a damn good whipping! Seriously, I have had 2 in total!

@ Victoria - Thanks for taking the time to comment. I agree up to a point, but also accept that it is incredibly difficult to bite our lip when we think we can help a loved on. It is such a tough call imho although I do think that fundamentally we are only responsible for ourselves.

@ Dave - My inbox is always open to you mate ;-) I *tend* to agree with the fact that sometimes we feel we need to say something. It’s so tough making a call on this without knowing all the facts and the dynamics at play. We don’t so to some extent we’re in the dark because it’s seldom a black and white issue.

I can remember reading ‘The Road Less Traveled’ and enjoying it up until the author said that if we had a loved one that we could help, then we had an obligation to do so. There were religious connotations I seem to remember too. Anyway, I just switched off at that stage because I found it condescending and sanctimonious.

@ Ali - You’re welcome and glad this post covered off some of your own questions.

@ Evelyn - And what you’re saying does happen, people do respond to that approach.

@ Jenny - You’re welcome and I hope the writing project is going well.

@ Laurie - Well you have plenty to consider and I hope it’s helpful. Of course your right the picture yesterday was you ;-)
Comment by Laurie on 20 September 2008:

The Road Less Traveled? I read a couple of his books and was turned off when he said he would have sex with a client if he thought it would help (I’m assuming it was a female in his situation) but he hadn’t found a situation where he thought it would actually help. Some think Peck is wonderful, I think he is a bit out there.

Yes I have plenty to ponder, thanks everyone for the insight.

Now I challenge someone else to step up to the gallows and submit a question! :O) No more facebook invites; give our friend Tim something good to chew on!!
Comment by Evan on 20 September 2008:

Hmm.

I agree with the ‘don’t try to change someone else’ line. Insistence builds resistance and that just leads to a contest or low-grade warfare.

But actually with anyone close to us our behaviour does change them in some way.

So some ideas about helping others to change.
Ask them if they are happy. If they are not, say you are willing to help them get happier.
You can tell them what you see - that they seem frustrated, walk around frowning etc and that you don’t like seeing them unhappy.
Tell them you are not happy with the relationship - that it doesn’t seem to be making you both happy.

If preaching at people brought change we’d be in paradise by now (we’re not, so far as I can see).
Comment by Dave Fowler on 21 September 2008:

“I told the hub I felt like I was going into the meat market and the butcher was holding up a piece of steak telling me it was old, rotten, tough, and tasteless and then wondered why I might not want to buy it”

I loved this line, because this is exactly what it’s like. It doesn’t just apply at home, it applies at work too. If I ever needed to wonder why my career didn’t fly, this was it.

I don’t accept that you should just abandon people to themselves, especially the ones you love. Where does this argument go when you consider your responsibility for raising children? Should they just be allowed to do as they please or do we have an obligation to ‘assist them to modify their behaviour’?

What about the friend or family member who gets themselves a drug habit, do we just leave them to self destruct while we work on ourselves in order to adjust our own thinking?

I still think there’s a lack of sensitivity being shown to Laurie here. I feel this one paragraph from Laurie, which is a 30 second snapshot (because that’s how long it took to read), probably represents weeks or months but is being treated like a one-off event. I can imagine that Laurie was at the height of her frustration when she said what she said.

I personally think the quote above was a good thing to say to her husband. It may not have done the trick initially, there may even have been some kickback and resistance, but it’s strong enough that it may eventually sink in.

Am I just being oversensitive here?
Comment by Laurie on 21 September 2008:

Wow, David, you get it! You understand. I can’t tell you what the trigger for the comment was about the meat but it came after being beaten verbally with day after day of his self hatred. Let’s be honest, who wants to be intimate and have sex with someone who is constantly telling you how worthless they are? My struggle is not letting his attitude affect the intamcy and desire. He ebbs and flows like us all. He will go through a period of time when he is better and it draws me closer but then something will happen (and it doesn’t have to be a biggie) and he falls into the pit of self condemnation. So I have to keep going and attempt to not let this period damage the progress we made during the time when he was drawing me closer. Make sense? Dave, Thank you! You are my new best friend.
Comment by Seamus Anthony on 22 September 2008:

Thanks for this Tim, I’d really like to get my step-dad to stop being such a self-defeatist, but I have always just assumed it’s impossible to change another person. Maybe your article that you linked to will help …

And that bit about asking for email notifications for comments follow ups made me smile. I have done that a few times and totally regretted it.
Comment by Jane Smith on 22 September 2008:

Hi Tim,

you said a lot of things about “How you should not change a person, if she/he doesn’t want it.”
The question from Laurie that interests me most is: “How should a spouse respond to a hub or wife who insists on putting him/her self down?” What I haven’t figured out completely is: what else could I myself do with this situation besides backing off and not complaining, and being ultrapositive about things?
Comment by Tim Brownson on 22 September 2008:

@ David and Laurie - I think I’ll leave you two to your group hug ;-)

@ Seamus - Maybe maybe not on terms of the article helping. Sometimes we just have to back off and hope for the best.

@ Jane - I’m not really sure what else there is you can do. I suppose it’s possible to rationalize with the other person and really drill down into their negativity.

Most negative people think they are realists, so if you can show them in a non-confrontational manner that negativity is no more realistic than positivity, then that may help. It probably requires lots of tact, diplomacy and patience, but it could work.

The moral question though is do we have a right to intervene? By doing so we are saying that our map of the world is a better one than the other persons and that just becomes a judgment call.

Thanks for asking and I hope that is somewhat helpful.
Comment by ROCKbetweenHARDPLACE on 3 October 2008:

I don’t want to “change” these 2 guys, but how do you get someone past agreeing to disagree (because they obviously don’t always agree to disagree)

One is a “glass half full” kind of guy and I’m ok with that. I remain positive and upbeat and he doesn’t bother me. The other has a weird/dry sense of humor and is always “negative” about the other guy being negative. Mr. Glass half full, just kind of makes comments here and there, not doing it all day just every once in a while. Mr. Superior - well, follows each comment with a “I’m better than you are for saying that” comment.

What gives? Any suggestions for me? Currently I just let them bicker back and forth - but if I could stop it, life would be greater that is already is.
Comment by Dave Fowler on 3 October 2008:

It’s not me is it? :)
Comment by ROCKbetweenHARDPLACE on 3 October 2008:

No - it’s not you. I don’t think…you might be easier to deal with (maybe.) Mr. Superior is actually bored with the work and wants to quickly move up the food chain. Who doesn’t. It only took me 8 years..but he wants to do it now - after only 1 year.

So, who knows…i’ll continue to let them make snide remarks to each other because it just isn’t worth the effort.

How to control the drama….

hey - Thanks for the great blog - just found you today and I’m glad I did.

Marie
Comment by Tim Brownson on 4 October 2008:

@ Marie - That is a really tough one without knowing the people involved. I’m not sure what you can do without risking making yourself into the ‘bad guy’

I guess you could try and broker a peace initiative between them, but you need their buy-in for any good to come of it. Sorry I can’t be of more help and best of luck with it.
Comment by Hilary on 12 October 2008:

I tend to stand on the hands-off side of the fence with regard to changing other people and, paradoxically, have had some success with it. My attitude is: I thoroughly respect who you choose to be but if you want to be in my space, there are rules.

For example, I can only take so much whingeing before it starts to grate, I won’t have a bar of generalised negativity like: ‘That’s what’s wrong with the world these days . . . ,’ I won’t have any meddling with my autonomy, and I won’t have any negative self-talk unless it’s intended to be part of a coping or healing process. They can say and do what they like with other people, and in many cases I hope they don’t lose personality traits I know they feel proud of but that aren’t comfortable for me.

This does mean that not even the insitution of marriage is more important than my sovereignty, and this may not work for Laurie. I have had some friends for whom ‘the rules’ went too much against the grain and we found it easier not to see each other anymore, but others who understand what I am demanding and get how the system works. So, in a way, they get what it’s like to stay away from the self-deprecation. And they get to watch someone acting as though she values herself.
Comment by Francesca on 22 October 2008:

Hi - Just found this blog & am really enjoying it plus all the great comments.

Laurie’s story hit a nerve with me as I am going through the same thing. My partner does tend to talk negatively about himself - this also leads to him feeling frustrated and sometimes means he becomes very angry over small or insignificant things.

I want him to change - but more importantly, I want HIM to want to change.

I have been struggling with questions about whether I have the right to ask anyone to change their behaviour, and my take on it for now is :
I do believe I have the right to mention a problem to my partner;
if he asks for any suggestions from me - then yes, I could probably come up with a few -
but fundamentally it must be up to him to change only if he wants to.

The sad thing is that I suspect to him it will seem like an ultimatum “Change your behaviour or else you’ll lose me” - and I know people never react well to such forced choices!

Anyway - plenty more blog posts to enjoy reading on here & (I hope!) some thought-provoking stuff for me…
Comment by Tim Brownson on 22 October 2008:

@ Francesca - Thanks a lot for your feedback it’s very much appreciated. For what it’s worth I agree with the position you’re taking 100%.

There may be an other option and that is to sit down and ask each other what you really, really want together. Start at the end and then work back. Try and get him to a point where he understands that to achieve whatever it is, the best starting point is belief and belief has to come out of thinking positively. Just an idea.
Comment by Immie on 31 October 2008:

Hi there, I just found this blog as well. What a great post, and comments. I am in a similar situation, and have been at a loss as to how to deal with it. My partner is such a gentle, kind person but he is using negative thinking as some sort of defense against the bad things he is sure are going to happen.

He is a scientist and very scientific and literal in his thinking, and his last partner left him because (his words) she became a “hippy” so he also has a huge resentment toward any “hippy” ideas such as positive thinking, or positive and negative energy.

It’s mostly that he is incredibly negative in general rather than about himself. For example I lost my job recently and I wanted to be comforted, but his idea of comforting me is talking about how terrible it was, how horrible my employers were to me, etc. When I applied for this new job I really wanted, it was you’ll probably have to work weekends, you won’t be paid much etc. He thinks he is preparing me for the worst. I have started not to tell him about these events or act like they’re unimportant to me because I feel like he’s “poisoning” them, and my attempts to remain positive. It’s hard to describe why it takes so much out of me but it does.

I guess ultimately I want him to change for me. I don’t know whether it’s a case of he doesn’t want to change or doesn’t think he can - it’s a bit of both I guess. Just wanted to share my story really! Thanks for the post.